Comments on: Is it appropriate to expect a social return on investment when considering education?

By: Stephen Downes

Stephen Downes — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 21:47:27 +0000

> Are you suggesting that because “improvement” is difficult to define that we shouldn’t seek to improve what we do in schools?

I’m not suggesting that it is difficult to define - I am suggesting that there is no single thing you can call ‘improvement’.

I’m saying you shouldn’t use a term like “improvement” - you should state specifically what it is you want to increase in schools and then as whether *that* is something I woul or woul not seek to see in schools.

By: Don Ledingham

Don Ledingham — Mon, 29 Dec 2008 20:28:57 +0000

Stephen

Thanks - as ever - for your comments

I’m not as confident as you are about the complaint being a straw man. I can foresee many involved in schooling having a very similar reaction to the idea of a social return on investment in education.

Are you suggesting that because “improvement” is difficult to define that we shouldn’t seek to improve what we do in schools? Hopefully I can explore this in more detail as I work through these series of posts.

Alan

I think it’s critical that we build pupil opinion into how we judge the success of investments in education.

By: Alan Coady

Alan Coady — Sun, 28 Dec 2008 19:30:56 +0000

I suppose the flip-side of the question (which may turn out to be more polyhedron- than coin-shaped) could be, “do most pupils feel that they receive an adequate return for their 11-13 years of compulsorily invested time?”

By: Stephen Downes

Stephen Downes — Sun, 28 Dec 2008 15:53:29 +0000

> education is not a product nor a service but an inalienable right for every human being

There are two major issues that I can think of, not the straw man complaint described above.

1. The presumption that the investment, and the return, is *social*. There is considerable individual investment, and considerable individual return. Moreover, there is no a priori reason to expect these to be balanced - indeed, the individual return exceeds the effort (which is what makes it worth doing) at the expense of the social investment.

2. There is no agreement on what constitutes “improvement”. For one person, “improvement” may include the spread of religiosity throughout society, while for another it may be the spread of reason. Some people ma value an elevated GNP, while another may measure improvement as greater harmony with the planet. With no common definition fo “improvement” there is no means to measure the social value o education - and a great danger that attempts to do so are thinly disguised attempts to impose a certain value set on society as a whole.