Comments on: School Based Management 2

By: Andrea

Andrea — Mon, 19 May 2008 16:41:38 +0000

“As a Headteacher, I’d make those decisions but it’s the people in the school who’d live directly with the consequences of them, not me. ” I found this something I can’t agree on Dorothy - as HT any decision I made ultimately came back and rested with me. My reason for being a HT in a school was to facilitate things so that high quality learning and teaching went on so the children could have good opportunities. There was never anything more important to me than the education of the children. Now in a QIO role I am not so dim as not to understand that the imeasurable things are often the most important things and I have to say that any form someone can demonstrate that is fine by me. My job isn’t to be out to get people it’s about making things better for the children. I am delighted that being a chartered teacher demonstrates the importance of learning and teaching and impact on practice - I’m pretty certain that I know the importance of this too, otherwise I might as well pack it in and go work at something else.

By: Donald

Donald — Mon, 19 May 2008 14:45:32 +0000

A really interesting online discussion. From both the perspective of a parent and a headteacher I would like to pick up on the point that Dorothy makes that it’s the people in the school that live with the consequences; not the headteacher. I totally disagree! As a head, if/when I get a decision wrong I can assure it really does affect me, just as it does when I make a bad call as a parent. Clearly, the degree to which a ‘wrong’ decision affects me depends on the context. Most big decisions I make as either headteacher or parent are influenced by having a finite amount of resources available; just as they are for others who fall into neither category.

I think Dorothy has highlighted an interesting point though about the dangers of valuing things we can measure and linking this to Don’s point about ‘return on investment’. My own view is that, currently in Education, we are concentrating far too much on measureable outcomes to the detriment of others.

By: Dorothy Coe

Dorothy Coe — Sun, 18 May 2008 21:12:51 +0000

No, I mean my second comment was abrasive! Sorry again

By: Dorothy Coe

Dorothy Coe — Sun, 18 May 2008 21:11:42 +0000

I’ve re-read my first comment and it sounds a bit abrasive, for which I apologise.

As a household budget holder, I can decide how to spend my money and I live with the consequences personally. As a Headteacher, I’d make those decisions but it’s the people in the school who’d live directly with the consequences of them, not me. In that respect the two situations are not the same.

Chartered Teachers have shown that they have a sound understanding of pedagogy and how it is used to enhance their practice. The status of Chartered Teacher denotes a attitude to learning more than a skill set. As professionals, we know how important this is. However, it might be very difficult to measure the impact, or to demonstrate it in a form the QIO will be able to use. Your requirement to be able to show a “return on the investment in a particular member of staff” implies an approach which values those things we can measure. I wonder if you’d agree that we can’t always measure the things we value.

I look forward to your post on outcomes with interest. How will you reconcile accountability with the promotion of creativity and risk-taking which I know you also value (and so do I)? How will you combine a need for assessment with trust in staff?

By: Andrea

Andrea — Sun, 18 May 2008 17:08:20 +0000

The values/aims etc of the school set what happens in them so I don’t understand Dorothy’s point about budgets. As I Head I would have loved the ability for us to get access fully to budgets to move school forward.
I’m looking forward to more of Don’s posts on this.

By: Don Ledingham

Don Ledingham — Sun, 18 May 2008 15:16:06 +0000

Dorothy

Why is it different? Both contexts - home and school - have to operate within the budget available. What would you do as a headteacher?

I’m sorry Dorothy if I have a limited view of CTs. I’d appreciate it if you could help me develop my understanding. Is it unacceptable to ask about the return on the investment in a particular member of staff?

By: Dorothy Coe

Dorothy Coe — Sun, 18 May 2008 12:50:31 +0000

“You are correct that all decisions will be influenced by consideration of budget - as do so many of our own decisions in our own homes - nevertheless, within these limitations we all make choices and set priorities dependent upon our values, the context, and the evidence available.”

Yes but that’s exactly what I mean! It’s not appropriate to compare domestic budgetary decisions with school ones. In my home the decisions I make are based on my priorities and values - that’s not so for the schools where I work or have to send my children - and in many areas of Scotland there is little or no choice about Primary schools and less about Secondaries.

I think your comment that HTs would appreciate particular “skill sets” offered by Chartered Teachers betrays a surprisingly limited view of what it is to be a Chartered Teacher, and also makes an unwarranted assumption about the awareness of HTs about Chartered Teachers.

By: Don Ledingham

Don Ledingham — Sun, 18 May 2008 08:14:38 +0000

Dorothy

I’m going to try to discuss outcomes in a future post so your points provide a very useful stimulus.

As regards to whether or not a headteacher would appoint a chartered teacher to their school over a non-chartered teacher is an interesting question. I supppose such a dilemma exists in the current situation and would be no different in what I am imagining. However, if I were an HT and I needed a particular skill set which could be provided by a CT, which would relate to some of the outcomes the school is working towards, then I think a CT would have a very good chance of being selected.

You are correct that all decisions will be influenced by consideration of budget - as do so many of our own decisions in our own homes - nevertheless, within these limitations we all make choices and set priorities dependent upon our values, the context, and the evidence available.

So the question a headteacher must ask themselves is will I get a return on this investment?

Jannette

It is illegal to take into account differentials in pay when making an appointment. An appointment panel must always select the best candidate on the day - and must be able to demonstrate how they came to that decision.

Thanks both.

Don

By: Janette Ball

Janette Ball — Sun, 18 May 2008 05:40:07 +0000

I worked in Hampshire and Berkshire for ten years before returning to teach in East Lothian. The HTs were responsible for employing and paying staff. If you were at the top of the scale the HT had the choice of employing you or employing a newly qualified teacher and providing cover so that class teachers could have some non-contact time. There was no non-contact time for class teachers at that point. This situation meant that teachers at the top of the scale regularly found it difficult to change school. However, newly qualified teachers found it easier to secure posts.

By: Dorothy Coe

Dorothy Coe — Sat, 17 May 2008 19:27:23 +0000

Outcomes set by local authority eh?
What sort of outcomes and who would decide them? Who would decide how they were measured and when? Who would do the measuring?

What sort of systems for dialogue could be set up to ensure differences in view between authority, management, practitioners and parents about this and other issues were fairly settled? Who would have the final say?

If it all comes down to numbers (oh yes it does!) what incentive would there be for you as an HT to employ me, an expensive Chartered Teacher, rather than nearly 2 NQTs? Yeah I may be very good, or even excellent but that difference is worryingly large. Perhaps my non-chartered colleagues would decide against professional development over and above their contractual obligations, in favour of increasing their employment options?