Comments on: Composite classes - a pressure point http://edubuzz.org/blogs/donsblog/2008/04/20/composite-classes-a-pressure-point/ "We learn from our experience.....if we reflect upon our experience" John Dewey Tue, 02 Dec 2008 05:11:14 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Julie http://edubuzz.org/blogs/donsblog/2008/04/20/composite-classes-a-pressure-point/#comment-11519 Julie Thu, 23 Oct 2008 23:48:34 +0000 http://edubuzz.org/blogs/donsblog/2008/04/20/composite-classes-a-pressure-point/#comment-11519 My child has been in two composite classes and as a bright child with learning difficulties, I can tell you that composite classes have not assisted with his learning. Each Friday is spelling test day. My child is in Year 4. The teacher says the Year 4 word to spell and then the Year 5 word to spell. My child has explained to me how confusing it is to try and spell the word he has been given and to hear the next word being given to the Year 5 children to spell. Whilst composite classes may be suitable from children who are average or above average with no learning difficulties, it does not seem to make sense for children who do find it difficult to learn and who are slower than average. If children with learning difficulties must be put into composite classes, then it would seem to me to be better to have a 3/4 combination so that there is the opportunity to reinforce earlier learning activities rather than to put them in situations where they find it challenging at their own level and then have the added challenge of a higher grade to contend with. My child has been in two composite classes and as a bright child with learning difficulties, I can tell you that composite classes have not assisted with his learning. Each Friday is spelling test day. My child is in Year 4. The teacher says the Year 4 word to spell and then the Year 5 word to spell. My child has explained to me how confusing it is to try and spell the word he has been given and to hear the next word being given to the Year 5 children to spell.

Whilst composite classes may be suitable from children who are average or above average with no learning difficulties, it does not seem to make sense for children who do find it difficult to learn and who are slower than average.

If children with learning difficulties must be put into composite classes, then it would seem to me to be better to have a 3/4 combination so that there is the opportunity to reinforce earlier learning activities rather than to put them in situations where they find it challenging at their own level and then have the added challenge of a higher grade to contend with.

]]> By: Angela http://edubuzz.org/blogs/donsblog/2008/04/20/composite-classes-a-pressure-point/#comment-11262 Angela Wed, 16 Jul 2008 21:22:18 +0000 http://edubuzz.org/blogs/donsblog/2008/04/20/composite-classes-a-pressure-point/#comment-11262 We have just arrived home from our holidays to find a letter from our childrens school. One going into Primary 3 will be 3/4 class and the other Primary 6 will be 5/6. The stigma of "stupid is already there from peers, she has always had good reports (how do the children know who is in who's class before we do). My question is why weren't we told before the finish of the school term what class our children will be in. This is an absolutely shocking way to find out which class your child will be in, especilly once the school term is finished and we can't ask any questions until the return of the new term My childs first reaction was "will I be with my friends". She has had a hard enough year will bullying and now the school is doing this to her, is this their way of taking her away from the bully, well in our eyes they have made the matters far worse......appalling We have just arrived home from our holidays to find a letter from our childrens school. One going into Primary 3 will be 3/4 class and the other Primary 6 will be 5/6. The stigma of “stupid is already there from peers, she has always had good reports (how do the children know who is in who’s class before we do). My question is why weren’t we told before the finish of the school term what class our children will be in.

This is an absolutely shocking way to find out which class your child will be in, especilly once the school term is finished and we can’t ask any questions until the return of the new term

My childs first reaction was “will I be with my friends”. She has had a hard enough year will bullying and now the school is doing this to her, is this their way of taking her away from the bully, well in our eyes they have made the matters far worse……appalling

]]> By: Patricia http://edubuzz.org/blogs/donsblog/2008/04/20/composite-classes-a-pressure-point/#comment-11261 Patricia Wed, 16 Jul 2008 19:40:53 +0000 http://edubuzz.org/blogs/donsblog/2008/04/20/composite-classes-a-pressure-point/#comment-11261 My stepdaughter has been in composite for the last 2 years, facing another year of it this coming term. To say it has no adverse affect on child is ridiculous. You have to look at each child! Due to her age, she has always been put in with the younger class, even though she is extremely bright. She has essentially repeated most of this year as the teacher was unable to handle teaching a composite class and directed the curriculum almost entirely to the younger class. Her confidence has been knocked, as most of her peers are in a "higher" class. She asks us if she's one of the "stupid kids" and that's why she's in the younger class and having to repeat work she did the year before. She is bored and unchallenged at school. Although we have had meetings with the school, they refuse to move her into any alternate class. I don't know why schools can't consider the ability/potential of students rather than just age as a criteria for a split class. My stepdaughter has been in composite for the last 2 years, facing another year of it this coming term. To say it has no adverse affect on child is ridiculous. You have to look at each child! Due to her age, she has always been put in with the younger class, even though she is extremely bright. She has essentially repeated most of this year as the teacher was unable to handle teaching a composite class and directed the curriculum almost entirely to the younger class. Her confidence has been knocked, as most of her peers are in a “higher” class. She asks us if she’s one of the “stupid kids” and that’s why she’s in the younger class and having to repeat work she did the year before. She is bored and unchallenged at school. Although we have had meetings with the school, they refuse to move her into any alternate class. I don’t know why schools can’t consider the ability/potential of students rather than just age as a criteria for a split class.

]]> By: Andromeda http://edubuzz.org/blogs/donsblog/2008/04/20/composite-classes-a-pressure-point/#comment-11234 Andromeda Wed, 09 Jul 2008 09:16:58 +0000 http://edubuzz.org/blogs/donsblog/2008/04/20/composite-classes-a-pressure-point/#comment-11234 (I'm an American, so I'll be using American terminology here...sorry about that, but I don't speak UK schools jargon well.) I was in a multi-age classroom for most of elementary, 2nd through 6th grade -- my year combined with the year below me. I now have a toddler and will seriously consider multi-age programs for her when the time comes. Socially and even morally it makes sense to me, eg for the reasons Chris Kelly explains. Academically it makes sense too -- when people are grouped by age there's an assumption that all kids the same age are at the same level academically, which is wrong, and doesn't work for kids who are too far from the norm in either direction (their academic needs aren't served *and* they're stigmatized). When there's a range of ages in the classroom, you just can't assume that everyone's at the same level, so teachers are forced to differentiate (which of course they *should* be anyway but aren't necessarily) and no one thinks it odd if different people are working on different things. One year I believe there were 5 levels of math going on in my two-grade classroom...imagine if we had all been expected to do the same math simply because we were in classrooms with kids the same age...how wrong that would have been for most of us. (I’m an American, so I’ll be using American terminology here…sorry about that, but I don’t speak UK schools jargon well.)

I was in a multi-age classroom for most of elementary, 2nd through 6th grade — my year combined with the year below me. I now have a toddler and will seriously consider multi-age programs for her when the time comes. Socially and even morally it makes sense to me, eg for the reasons Chris Kelly explains. Academically it makes sense too — when people are grouped by age there’s an assumption that all kids the same age are at the same level academically, which is wrong, and doesn’t work for kids who are too far from the norm in either direction (their academic needs aren’t served *and* they’re stigmatized). When there’s a range of ages in the classroom, you just can’t assume that everyone’s at the same level, so teachers are forced to differentiate (which of course they *should* be anyway but aren’t necessarily) and no one thinks it odd if different people are working on different things. One year I believe there were 5 levels of math going on in my two-grade classroom…imagine if we had all been expected to do the same math simply because we were in classrooms with kids the same age…how wrong that would have been for most of us.

]]> By: Mark Walker http://edubuzz.org/blogs/donsblog/2008/04/20/composite-classes-a-pressure-point/#comment-11228 Mark Walker Thu, 03 Jul 2008 12:14:15 +0000 http://edubuzz.org/blogs/donsblog/2008/04/20/composite-classes-a-pressure-point/#comment-11228 Chris, an insightful comment. As a principal showing parents on school tours I am always asked about single and composite gradings and class size. I think people ask these questions because they are understandable and often comparable. They usually say if its not good enough for private schools who can afford to have single classes it means its an inferior grouping strategy. Some independent school principals I know comment on the stability angle of their very conservative families. I have given up on trying to play those games and in fact say some very challenging things to prospective parents on questions about composites or class size. I very quickly, as you do, go to the heart of what makes a difference to student learning - active, passionate teacher who is committed to learning and the strengthening of their instructional capacity. I challenge parents to produce evidence that these size or groupings strategies do make a significant difference rather than be on the defensive. I finish with the image of a hospital in the 70's and one in 2010 and offer a choice as you enter through the doors of the emergency department with a heart attack - do you want an up to date facility focused on research using the latest skills and technology - uncomfortable level high - or the hospital you knew in the 70's. Very few choose the 70's and I think feel a little happier that we won't settle for the comfortable but question and explore ways to make things better I have just completed the construction of the first school building that really challenges the very foundation of groups. The years 5/6 students will self select some tool workshops as well as negotiate others with teachers as well as work in collaborative groupings and individual studies. Check out my blog which will be updated in a few weeks with further pictures and stories on this journey. So all in all keep the faith. Chris, an insightful comment.

As a principal showing parents on school tours I am always asked about single and composite gradings and class size. I think people ask these questions because they are understandable and often comparable. They usually say if its not good enough for private schools who can afford to have single classes it means its an inferior grouping strategy. Some independent school principals I know comment on the stability angle of their very conservative families.

I have given up on trying to play those games and in fact say some very challenging things to prospective parents on questions about composites or class size. I very quickly, as you do, go to the heart of what makes a difference to student learning - active, passionate teacher who is committed to learning and the strengthening of their instructional capacity. I challenge parents to produce evidence that these size or groupings strategies do make a significant difference rather than be on the defensive.

I finish with the image of a hospital in the 70’s and one in 2010 and offer a choice as you enter through the doors of the emergency department with a heart attack - do you want an up to date facility focused on research using the latest skills and technology - uncomfortable level high - or the hospital you knew in the 70’s. Very few choose the 70’s and I think feel a little happier that we won’t settle for the comfortable but question and explore ways to make things better

I have just completed the construction of the first school building that really challenges the very foundation of groups. The years 5/6 students will self select some tool workshops as well as negotiate others with teachers as well as work in collaborative groupings and individual studies. Check out my blog which will be updated in a few weeks with further pictures and stories on this journey.

So all in all keep the faith.

]]> By: Chris Kelly PT Balgreen PS http://edubuzz.org/blogs/donsblog/2008/04/20/composite-classes-a-pressure-point/#comment-11223 Chris Kelly PT Balgreen PS Tue, 01 Jul 2008 22:14:40 +0000 http://edubuzz.org/blogs/donsblog/2008/04/20/composite-classes-a-pressure-point/#comment-11223 As an Australian trained teacher I am very familiar with 'Composite' classes and the significant benefits that pupils can gain for learning in such an environment. There is one important significance however and that is that these classes are often established as 'Multi-Age' classes. In any classroom there will be significant differences in the pace that pupils learn and their ability. In one of my classes last year I taught pupils ranging from Pre Level A to Level C maths, an enormous difference. All teachers ensure they teach to the individual's level and thus the classes' year level becomes irrelevant as the level of the pupil is all important. That however is only the 'nuts and bolts' of the classroom. Of enormous benefit is the ethos of the multiage learning environment. The cooperative learning approach enables pupils to develop holistically in many ways. Research shows that pupils who learn in a 'multiage' environment do better academically, socially and creatively due to the range of ages. If we think about it, when in our lives apart from the time at school do we spend the majority of our day with the same age group? We don't. Education should prepare us for society. Does a single aged class do that? In many Australian schools composite/multiage classes are chosen as a preferred route not one because of budgets. Many schools proactively set up multiage streams: P3,4,5 and P5,6,7. Having now taught in England and Scotland across private and state sectors and a range of schools, I am always surprised with the stigma that 'Composite' schools attract. Now permantly residing in Scotland, I hope the opportunity for my daughter to be educated a 'Composite/Multiage' classroom arises. If not I will go looking for one! The single most important thing that can have a positive affect on a child's learning is the relationship they have with their teacher. Grant me a composite class with a like minded teacher any day! Should anyone require information please feel free to contact me: chriskatherine@hotmail.com As an Australian trained teacher I am very familiar with ‘Composite’ classes and the significant benefits that pupils can gain for learning in such an environment. There is one important significance however and that is that these classes are often established as ‘Multi-Age’ classes.
In any classroom there will be significant differences in the pace that pupils learn and their ability. In one of my classes last year I taught pupils ranging from Pre Level A to Level C maths, an enormous difference. All teachers ensure they teach to the individual’s level and thus the classes’ year level becomes irrelevant as the level of the pupil is all important.
That however is only the ‘nuts and bolts’ of the classroom. Of enormous benefit is the ethos of the multiage learning environment. The cooperative learning approach enables pupils to develop holistically in many ways. Research shows that pupils who learn in a ‘multiage’ environment do better academically, socially and creatively due to the range of ages. If we think about it, when in our lives apart from the time at school do we spend the majority of our day with the same age group? We don’t. Education should prepare us for society. Does a single aged class do that?
In many Australian schools composite/multiage classes are chosen as a preferred route not one because of budgets. Many schools proactively set up multiage streams: P3,4,5 and P5,6,7.
Having now taught in England and Scotland across private and state sectors and a range of schools, I am always surprised with the stigma that ‘Composite’ schools attract.
Now permantly residing in Scotland, I hope the opportunity for my daughter to be educated a ‘Composite/Multiage’ classroom arises. If not I will go looking for one!
The single most important thing that can have a positive affect on a child’s learning is the relationship they have with their teacher. Grant me a composite class with a like minded teacher any day!

Should anyone require information please feel free to contact me:
chriskatherine@hotmail.com

]]> By: anne http://edubuzz.org/blogs/donsblog/2008/04/20/composite-classes-a-pressure-point/#comment-11211 anne Sat, 28 Jun 2008 09:33:06 +0000 http://edubuzz.org/blogs/donsblog/2008/04/20/composite-classes-a-pressure-point/#comment-11211 my son was given a note on tuesday afternoon informing him that he would be going in to p4 (straight) and that his five close friends who he has built up a strong relationship over 3 years would all be going into the composite class p 4/5. He was mocked and laughed at by some of these children who said he as not clever enough to be going into their class. Obviously he was upset, more by the fact that not one of his group of friends were going to be in his class. As we had no warning or prior information of this, we could not explain the reasons why this had happened. This is Glasgow City Council schools. I feel that a lot of emphasis is on explaining the composite class but not explaining why a child didn't make it into the composite class, why he was seperated from his friends ( i was told by the deputy head she cannot take friendship into account when seperating the classes) but his latest report card states that he has built up a good friendship in the class???? under his scoial and personal development section!!!!! I agree with Alan Thomson June 6th - who says it stigmatises the child and also causes no end of ongoing problems between parents and the school who disagree with subjective compositing. My main issue is also that my son will be in a class of 32 pupils now as opposed to the composite class of 25 - who has the advantage??? I was told by the deputy head that this depends on the teacher!!! Another good point made by Alan was thsat he feels all classes are composite by the very fact that there is a wide range of abilities in any group. This is my point exactly and if this is the case then surely it is not fair to have a class of 25 and one of 32 in the same year? I am still not happy with the situation and feel I have had no information from the school and am writing to the education dept, going to my local mp and writing to the school. The whole thing comes down to money as far as we can read into this and unless every single parent stands up an makes ourselves heard this will continue to happen in our schools. Almost every parent at my school with children who were in composite classes agree that there child progresses educationally but socially they suffer by being excluded by peers and have to start to make new friends again , this may be fine for some children but not all of them. Like Linda McBride our school informs two days before the end of term, no consultation and not much time to voice any concerns a prent may have. Not good enough!!! my son was given a note on tuesday afternoon informing him that he would be going in to p4 (straight) and that his five close friends who he has built up a strong relationship over 3 years would all be going into the composite class p 4/5. He was mocked and laughed at by some of these children who said he as not clever enough to be going into their class. Obviously he was upset, more by the fact that not one of his group of friends were going to be in his class. As we had no warning or prior information of this, we could not explain the reasons why this had happened. This is Glasgow City Council schools. I feel that a lot of emphasis is on explaining the composite class but not explaining why a child didn’t make it into the composite class, why he was seperated from his friends ( i was told by the deputy head she cannot take friendship into account when seperating the classes) but his latest report card states that he has built up a good friendship in the class???? under his scoial and personal development section!!!!!

I agree with Alan Thomson June 6th - who says it stigmatises the child and also causes no end of ongoing problems between parents and the school who disagree with subjective compositing. My main issue is also that my son will be in a class of 32 pupils now as opposed to the composite class of 25 - who has the advantage??? I was told by the deputy head that this depends on the teacher!!! Another good point made by Alan was thsat he feels all classes are composite by the very fact that there is a wide range of abilities in any group. This is my point exactly and if this is the case then surely it is not fair to have a class of 25 and one of 32 in the same year?

I am still not happy with the situation and feel I have had no information from the school and am writing to the education dept, going to my local mp and writing to the school. The whole thing comes down to money as far as we can read into this and unless every single parent stands up an makes ourselves heard this will continue to happen in our schools. Almost every parent at my school with children who were in composite classes agree that there child progresses educationally but socially they suffer by being excluded by peers and have to start to make new friends again , this may be fine for some children but not all of them.

Like Linda McBride our school informs two days before the end of term, no consultation and not much time to voice any concerns a prent may have. Not good enough!!!

]]> By: Linda McBride http://edubuzz.org/blogs/donsblog/2008/04/20/composite-classes-a-pressure-point/#comment-11207 Linda McBride Thu, 26 Jun 2008 02:35:25 +0000 http://edubuzz.org/blogs/donsblog/2008/04/20/composite-classes-a-pressure-point/#comment-11207 I have twins who have been in the same class for P1 & P2 and today we received a letter for each informing us of their classes for next year. One is going to be in a straight P3 and one in a P3/P4. This has left us with a real dilemma!!!! We have had experience before of a composite class with one of our daughters and much as educationally she did not suffer, she did however suffer socially and was excluded by her peers along with the other 5 children. This has had long term effects on her developement and confidence. The added twist of separating twins and one being left with most of their friends and one not is really worrying! To add to my dilemma I believe that the boys would benefit from being in seperate classes. I am however most annoyed that we were not informed until 2 days before the end of term and not given an opportunity for input and descussion. First thing is going to be a case of on phone to try and get a meeting at the school! Will let you know what outcome is! Linda I have twins who have been in the same class for P1 & P2 and today we received a letter for each informing us of their classes for next year. One is going to be in a straight P3 and one in a P3/P4. This has left us with a real dilemma!!!! We have had experience before of a composite class with one of our daughters and much as educationally she did not suffer, she did however suffer socially and was excluded by her peers along with the other 5 children. This has had long term effects on her developement and confidence. The added twist of separating twins and one being left with most of their friends and one not is really worrying! To add to my dilemma I believe that the boys would benefit from being in seperate classes. I am however most annoyed that we were not informed until 2 days before the end of term and not given an opportunity for input and descussion. First thing is going to be a case of on phone to try and get a meeting at the school! Will let you know what outcome is! Linda

]]> By: Paul Fagan http://edubuzz.org/blogs/donsblog/2008/04/20/composite-classes-a-pressure-point/#comment-11155 Paul Fagan Thu, 12 Jun 2008 22:27:55 +0000 http://edubuzz.org/blogs/donsblog/2008/04/20/composite-classes-a-pressure-point/#comment-11155 Don, my concern about composite classes in primary is not based on children of different ages being taught together. I completely agree with the design principles of CFE and have made it possible in my own school for young learners to be taught a curriclulum which best suits there ability levels irresepective of age. However the problem with composite classes in our primary school, particularly in early years, is related to the amount of formal education that the children have been exposed to. Skills development is extremely dynamic. Most children in P1 can't read while most can in P2. There are also issues relating to peer isolation. Primary children's social network is related very much to their experiences at school, for example it is very often the whole class who are invited to birthday parties! Small groups who are seperated from the rest of their chronological year group to form a class with children of different ages can feel socially isolated, with a potential loss of status in the eyes of their peers. Bottom line is that composite classes in early years are created as a result of financial expediency. Do you really believe that early years educationalists Do you really believe, given the choice would choose to have composite classes? Don, my concern about composite classes in primary is not based on children of different ages being taught together. I completely agree with the design principles of CFE and have made it possible in my own school for young learners to be taught a curriclulum which best suits there ability levels irresepective of age. However the problem with composite classes in our primary school, particularly in early years, is related to the amount of formal education that the children have been exposed to. Skills development is extremely dynamic. Most children in P1 can’t read while most can in P2.

There are also issues relating to peer isolation. Primary children’s social network is related very much to their experiences at school, for example it is very often the whole class who are invited to birthday parties! Small groups who are seperated from the rest of their chronological year group to form a class with children of different ages can feel socially isolated, with a potential loss of status in the eyes of their peers.

Bottom line is that composite classes in early years are created as a result of financial expediency. Do you really believe that early years educationalists Do you really believe, given the choice would choose to have composite classes?

]]> By: Alan Thomson http://edubuzz.org/blogs/donsblog/2008/04/20/composite-classes-a-pressure-point/#comment-11125 Alan Thomson Fri, 06 Jun 2008 08:45:56 +0000 http://edubuzz.org/blogs/donsblog/2008/04/20/composite-classes-a-pressure-point/#comment-11125 I am a teacher and a parent with a seven year old daughter who has been in composite classes during her first three years of primary education. After having taught for over 25 years, I have found children are not disadvantaged in any way by being in a composite class. All classes are 'composite' by the very fact that there is a wide range of abilities in any group. Teachers are skilled in differentiating, whether it be for a straight year group or a composite class. My daughter has benefited from working with a range of ages within her class. I feel that the only way to composite a class is by age. Having a class composited by ability both stigmatises the child and also causes no end of ongoing problems between parents and the school who disagree on subjective compositing. The other problem with compositing by ability is that it tends to be by numeracy and literacy ability whereas children who are weak in these areas will more than likely have strengths in other curricular areas which are less easily measured. I am a teacher and a parent with a seven year old daughter who has been in composite classes during her first three years of primary education. After having taught for over 25 years, I have found children are not disadvantaged in any way by being in a composite class. All classes are ‘composite’ by the very fact that there is a wide range of abilities in any group. Teachers are skilled in differentiating, whether it be for a straight year group or a composite class. My daughter has benefited from working with a range of ages within her class.
I feel that the only way to composite a class is by age. Having a class composited by ability both stigmatises the child and also causes no end of ongoing problems between parents and the school who disagree on subjective compositing. The other problem with compositing by ability is that it tends to be by numeracy and literacy ability whereas children who are weak in these areas will more than likely have strengths in other curricular areas which are less easily measured.

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