Comments on: Nominal Fallacy http://edubuzz.org/alancoady/2012/06/05/nominal-fallacy/ What's life like for an instrumental instructor in East Lothian? Thu, 07 Feb 2013 14:37:19 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: Andreas http://edubuzz.org/alancoady/2012/06/05/nominal-fallacy/comment-page-1/#comment-19904 Andreas Fri, 08 Jun 2012 12:42:53 +0000 http://edubuzz.org/alancoady/?p=3152#comment-19904 Of course, specific domain knowledge and context is always involved in interpretation. But returning my the idea that names are opaque: in logic if I am trying to solve a propositional problem I may name certain propositions P, Q & R - these names are completely arbitrary and knowing the names tells me nothing about the relationships between the propositions. In music we name the notes A, B, C etc - but here knowing the names does tell me something about the relationships between the pitch classes: the alphabetical order of the names corresponds to the pitch order of the notes. That's kind of like inferring that I must be taller than you because my name comes after yours in the alphabet :-) The "names" of the notes in music relies on a systematic relationship between the formal lexical properties of the name and the physical properties of the note itself. To my mind that makes it more than *just* a name. So, I still maintain that Am7 is a description and not a name :-) Andreas Of course, specific domain knowledge and context is always involved in interpretation.

But returning my the idea that names are opaque: in logic if I am trying to solve a propositional problem I may name certain propositions P, Q & R – these names are completely arbitrary and knowing the names tells me nothing about the relationships between the propositions. In music we name the notes A, B, C etc – but here knowing the names does tell me something about the relationships between the pitch classes: the alphabetical order of the names corresponds to the pitch order of the notes. That’s kind of like inferring that I must be taller than you because my name comes after yours in the alphabet :-) The “names” of the notes in music relies on a systematic relationship between the formal lexical properties of the name and the physical properties of the note itself. To my mind that makes it more than *just* a name.

So, I still maintain that Am7 is a description and not a name :-)

Andreas

]]> By: Alan Coady http://edubuzz.org/alancoady/2012/06/05/nominal-fallacy/comment-page-1/#comment-19902 Alan Coady Thu, 07 Jun 2012 09:45:42 +0000 http://edubuzz.org/alancoady/?p=3152#comment-19902 You'd still need knowledge which exists outside the name, though. For example, what kind of 7th would you assume and why? The harmonic and melodic minor scales contain major 7ths but Am7 requires a minor 7th. Am7 is related to the Aeolian and Dorian modes. This information is nowhere to be found in the name. Happily, at the stage where names are most crucial i.e. 8-year old pupils in P5, life is much simpler. You’d still need knowledge which exists outside the name, though. For example, what kind of 7th would you assume and why? The harmonic and melodic minor scales contain major 7ths but Am7 requires a minor 7th. Am7 is related to the Aeolian and Dorian modes. This information is nowhere to be found in the name.

Happily, at the stage where names are most crucial i.e. 8-year old pupils in P5, life is much simpler.

]]> By: Andreas http://edubuzz.org/alancoady/2012/06/05/nominal-fallacy/comment-page-1/#comment-19901 Andreas Thu, 07 Jun 2012 09:32:51 +0000 http://edubuzz.org/alancoady/?p=3152#comment-19901 I've been thinking about this some more and it occurs to me that some of what might be taken for "names" in music are actually closer to being "descriptions". Names are usually referentially opaque: if you don't know what a name refers to, you can't figure it out from the name alone. But what about the "name" of a chord, say "A minor 7th"? I can figure out what this must refer to: it's a chord rooted in A, with a minor third and an added 7th. I'd therefore argue this isn't the "name" of the chord, but a "description" of it... Andreas I’ve been thinking about this some more and it occurs to me that some of what might be taken for “names” in music are actually closer to being “descriptions”. Names are usually referentially opaque: if you don’t know what a name refers to, you can’t figure it out from the name alone. But what about the “name” of a chord, say “A minor 7th”? I can figure out what this must refer to: it’s a chord rooted in A, with a minor third and an added 7th. I’d therefore argue this isn’t the “name” of the chord, but a “description” of it…

Andreas

]]> By: Andreas http://edubuzz.org/alancoady/2012/06/05/nominal-fallacy/comment-page-1/#comment-19900 Andreas Tue, 05 Jun 2012 15:58:07 +0000 http://edubuzz.org/alancoady/?p=3152#comment-19900 Dare I quote the second line of the Daode Jing in this context?: The name which can be named is not the unchanging name. Names are just labels, useful as pointers but not to confused with the thing being named. Andreas :-) Dare I quote the second line of the Daode Jing in this context?:

The name which can be named is not the unchanging name.

Names are just labels, useful as pointers but not to confused with the thing being named.

Andreas

:-)

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